What If?

What if the very people [Christians] who claim to be following the teachings of Jesus have got him all wrong?

I used to be one of them. Preacher's kid, baptized in a Southern Baptist Church, even went thru a period when I attended "charismatic" churches where we lay people were encouraged to speak in tongues. I knew the apostle Paul warned against placing such an emphasis upon speaking in tongues [I Corinthians 14:5]. But, by then, I was also aware that there were a long list of doctrines, commonly adhered to in Christian churches, which are opposed to biblical scriptures. Even more disturbing, I was aware of certain Old Testament scriptures which were even more opposed, 180 degrees so, to the love teachings of Jesus. Numbers chapter 31 being the worst example of this.

But, strangely, with extremely rare exceptions, none of my fellow Christians appeared to be concerned, at all, about such inconsistencies.

For a while, I played bass and guitar behind a gospel singer at various Christian churches across the state of Indiana. There is no music more emotional, more soul stirring, than gospel music. But, you should be aware, if you are not already, that the emotion to be witnessed during Christian musical performances says nothing about the godliness of the artists performing or the folks in the pews dancing and clapping their hands. I know this from personal observation. That gospel singer I accompanied, who also happened to be a preacher, was a stone cold alcoholic as well as appearing to be incapable of preventing himself form engaging in sex outside of the bounds of holy matrimony.

There is no man who has lived in my lifetime who I admire more than Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. -- one of the most well known Christians of the 20th century. Yet, despite all the great things that he accomplished, despite being a married preacher, he also frequently engaged in sexual affairs. For years, I simply refused to believe the rumours about this. But, then, I read the autobiography of his best friend, Ralph Abernathy, who not only gave specific details of a few of King's affairs but even provided Dr. King's own words for why he not only particpated in such acts but had no intention of ever changing his behavior.

Indeed, even my own Christian minister father ended up divorcing my mother and marrying a woman younger than I.

There is something _terribly_ broken in a religion which could not even inspire men as principled as Dr. MLK and my father to avoid such self-destructive behavior.

So .... I have to ask ... what if?

What if Christians, even the ones who genuinely mean well, and geninely desire to live for God, have got him all wrong?

What if Christianity is guilty of precisely what Timothy was talking about [et al, the Apostate Church] when he spoke of Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.
 
We know, Christians know, that the apostle Paul, as did Timothy, foretold of a great falling away in the End Times. Christians refer to this as "the apostate church". But, they appear to be incapable of even considering that they may well be who the prophecy speaks of.

What ... If ... They ... Are?

Just listen. Just listen.

Surely, it cannot be mere coincidence that Christianity's two highest holy days --- Christmas and Easter --- originated from pagan rituals.

Surely, it cannot be mere coincidence that the Christians of this wicked age happened to be stockpiling 95% of the nuclear warheads. What does that have to do with what Jesus taught:

"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

Surely, it cannot be mere coincidence that, the most openly Christian President of my lifetime, a man who in complete opposition to the _Love_ commandments of Jesus proudly publicly proclaimed himself as "a War President" ... surely, people, surely, it was not mere coincidence that that man operating under the spirit of anti-Christ received 82% of the votes in 2004 from people who identified themselves as evangelical protestants who attended church weekly.

What Good Is Such A Religion If It So Consistently Fails To Lead Men To Righteous?
 

Hi my brother,
First off I want to say that above anything, place, or person. The relationship I have with my Lord and Savior is not dictated by the examples of others.
man WILL FAIL YOU all the time heck you will fail your self. I know cause I don't always hit the mark, but that's ok. When I was born it was just me Jerome W. When I die it will only be me. I will be the only one that have to deal with what's on the other side.
LET me get back to work I will finish my thoughts later.

First off. Let me say that debating scriptures and religion isnt my thing. I dont do because of two reasons, 1) God commands me not too and 2) I dont know enough to claim to know anything (if that makes sense to you)

All I can do, is try to present the gospel in such a way that people can see it in action.

Second of all, Satan is the god of this world. The bible says so. Therefore, Satan will not cast out Satan. Do you think Satan is going to just allow this world to be evangelized without him interferring. Easter and Christmas have pagan origins. No one is disagreeing with that. It is the truth. However, these pagan rituals were introduced to keep the masses of people (the unlearned, the ignorant, and unbelieving) into following the pagans and not Christ. All the adversary wants to do is to take away glory from God. PERIOD

Third of all.
The whole purpose of Christ coming was to seek and save that which was lost. The people who live and suffer in this world. These people suffer from a terminal illness called sin. Christ paid the penalty for sin so that we could be redeemed. God gave all of us, free will. We can chose to follow Him or ignore Him. Period. We are all fallen creatures who need a savior, and just because we say yes to the gospel doesnt mean we wont sin, or make conscious mistakes. So stop looking at men who have failed in their lives. We all fail. Vince Lombardi told his players that they were striving for perfection and even though they wouldnt ever hit it, they would meet a place called excellence. So we are striving to live righteous in Christ.
One thing you should also know, God gave Aaron, Moses brother, the priesthood after he made a critical mistake and built a golden calf. So God doesnt count us out after we make mistakes.

Lastly,
I realize people have a problem with Christianity, folks like yourself label it as a religion. When that is the last thing in this world it is. ONLY CHRIST GETS THE NAILS.  WHERE IS YOUR CRITICISM OF ISLAM? WHERE IS YOUR CRITICISM OF HINDUISM? WHERE IS YOUR CRITICISM OF TAOISM? WHERE IS YOUR CRITICISM OF THE OTHER BELIEF SYSTEMS OF THIS WORLD? NOW BROTHER IF YOU CANNOT ANSWER THAT THEN YOU CANNOT ASK YOUR QUESTIONS OBJECTIVELY OR CONSTRUCTIVELY BECAUSE YOU ARE ACTING WITH A BIAS AND YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING ANY ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS. I DONT PERSONALLY ATTACK THESE SYSTEMS OF BELIEFS BECAUSE I KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS AND WHAT HE DOES.
Christianity isnt the problem, Christians are not problem. The problem is with your perception. You know a lot but you dont know as your ought to.

First: The Christian tradition regarding looking at Jesus, not man, contradicts what Jesus taught. Jesus warned us about false prophets who would attempt to lead us astray. If a false prophet is preaching from the pulpit, or dancing and singing in the choir, you would be wise to examine him, especially what he is doing,  _very_ closely. Otherwise, you will be led astray, just as Timothy warned in the 3rd chapter of his 2nd letter.

In his Sermon On The Mount, to be specific, Jesus advised us to know them by their fruit. It is possible to be so focused upon the rhythm and beat of the choir's music, and the emotional impact of the preacher's sermon, that you end up tripping on the bad fruit falling from the trees of all those false prophets.

If a blind man, when confronted with contradictions between what Christianity teaches and what Jesus taught, advises you to go with what Christianity teaches, and you choose to follow that blind man's advice, you are both going to end up in the ditch. Choose this day who you will serve.

Second: Satan is _not_ the god of this world. Yes, Paul taught this. But, that was not the only teaching which Paul got wrong. Paul is also the one who taught that women should keep silent in the church [he apparently was not aware that Jesus ordained the woman at the well as one of his first missionaries], and that slaves should obey their masters [a false teaching which Harriet Tubman, thank God, wisely ignored].

Unfortunately, Christianity has yet another false teaching -- that every word in the physical bible is the infallible inerrant Word Of God.

Jesus never taught that Satan was the god of anything. Predictably, Christianity went with what Paul taught instead of what Jesus taught.

Satan has no where near the power Christianity thinks he has. Quite to the contrary, Satan can do nothing other than that which the One God, our Father, allows. If Satan was the god of this world, he could have slain Job without first asking permission. But, no, Satan has _no_ power other than which God allows. Which means, by the way, that Satan is actually doing _exactly_ what God manifest him to do. "Whom I love, I chasten."

Lastly: I spend more time criticizing Christianity for two reasons. One, I was a Christian for most of my 58 years of mortal life and I am intimately familiar with it. Two, Christianity is the religion of choice of Gog and Magog --- a culture which both the Old and New Testament foretells will lead the armies of the Dragon, the Beast, and the whore who sits on the Beast, in the Last Days.

And, that is exactly what is coming to past. "All nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

Hmmm... for someone who says God commands him not to debate, you sure are doing a great job of doing just that.  Nah... I'm not about ti go into this today.  Thank God I have my OWN personal relationship with God and don't need somebody's messed up version of what God is all about.  I'll close with this... he who is without sin let him cast that first stone.

Hmmm... for someone who says God commands him not to debate, you sure are doing a great job of doing just that.  Nah... I'm not about ti go into this today.  Thank God I have my OWN personal relationship with God and don't need somebody's messed up version of what God is all about.  I'll close with this... he who is without sin let him cast that first stone.

-vibewitme2

I wouldnt call my response to istlota a debate, but if thats what you want to call it so be it. Glad you dont feel like getting into this today (whatever that means). And what part of the discussion warrants you quoting Christ regarding stones? SMH. Please re-read what I said when you feel like getting into it if ever. You missed the bus, on my post Im sorry to say. lol Its all good.

Your issue with Christianity is personal and unfortunate. Im not going tit for tat with you about what you think the scriptures mean or how wrong you think Paul is. Its you opinion and feel free to voice it to your heart's content. Obviously we will need to agree to simply disagree.

Religion, by definition, is personal. It is only unfortunate if it leads you to embrace ignorance and shun truth.

Christians on the Internet are getting away with an outrageous double standard. Even on this forum, there are many Christians who feel it is their God given right to regularly praise the virtues of their faith. And, I have no problem with them being allowed to do so.

But, the double standard kicks in when someone with different religous beliefs dares to speak just as freely.

The reason most forums discourage religious debates is that religous adherents cannot handle it. I believe God exists. I happen to be convinced of Its _universal_ goodness and mercy and love. But, I have yet to find a religion which teaches that. Oh, they start out saying they teach this. But, eventually, I discover that what they really teach is the same old God loves us best lie that allows Christians and Jews to think it was God's Will for the children of 'loved Jacob' to kill the Amalekites, to burn their cities to the ground, and to rape their young daughters who had not yet known a man [Numbers chapter 31].

Which, perhaps, explains why my fellow Americans, most of whom identify themselves as Christians, are not marching in the streets protesting the murder of hundreds of Muslim civilians [men, women, and yes even children] by Babylon's unmanned drones:

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2010/10/03/us-unmanned-drone-attacks-within-pakistan-record-high-threat-civilians

But, perhaps, I have misjudged the many Christians here on Our Minds Flow Freely. Did I?  You tell me. In the now going on three years that our glorious Great Black Hope of a president has approved the murder of Muslim civilians by unmanned drones, has even one of the proud Christians here raised as much as a whimper of protest over all those deaths of those who their bible says God hates [Malachi 1:2-3]?

I have discovered a few pivotal things in my mortal journey. I have discovered that if you truly do love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. The two greatest of these is Love God and Love your fellow man. To love as selflessly as God loves is religion undefiled. If you hunger and thirst for that sort of righteousness, the Comforter will lead you to all truth. And, when you get there, what you will find is that the One True God is not this God of rage, wrath, and anger which Christianity has so passionately embraced since their 'Saint' Constantine proclaimed "By This, Conquer".

And, from there, what you will find is that it is impossible to sit by quietly as the Dragon, the Beast, and the woman who sits on the Beast make such a mockery of the teachings of Christ.

Istlota, you might be better off writing this on some kiddy blog. The people here are grown and I doubt very seriously that your so called truth is going to persuade them one way or the other. People can believe what they want regardless of the label they choose. Jesus taught, but it is entirely up to each individual if they believe whoever inteprets His Word. Like Asylum stated, you seem to have a personal issue with Christianty. Your vendetta against those who call themselves Christians seems to be deep rooted and if writing about it like you do is therapeutic for you, then so be it. Welcome to the real world of discovery. Religious truths and untruths never end and I have to go back overseas so this is all the time I will devote to this topic. Its the same all over the world.

I don't have much to add... other than I too have noticed that the only topics you post or respond to are those that blast Christianity. I'd love to hear your input on other subjects. We all believe what we believe. We all respect your choice to believe what you do... but I would never try and convince you that what you believe is wrong... don't try to convince me that my choice in faith is either.

WWJD.
 
Meshell Ndegeocello has this great line in one of her songs. She says "If Jesus was alive today, he would be locked up with all the other brothers."
 
What I am doing I do on all Internet venues I have participated on for years. What I do has historic, biblical, precedent. Earlier, some one posted that God commands him/her not to debate religion. Yet, it is ironic that my rants against Christianity are pretty tame compared to how Jesus went off on the church folks of his day. Unlike Jesus, I have yet to just snap one day, fashion a homemade whip, storm into some church, and start knocking over collection plates and running off the money changers  ...:

• "And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them."

Think .... really think about what, exactly, Jesus was talking about above when he said "Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"
 
Again, I ask, because that is what I do ...
 
What if?
 
What if the Christians of our day have assumed the role played by the Pharisees of Jesus' day?
 
One more question and then I am going to log off, never to return to this forum. I think I have done what I was supposed to do here.
 
Here is the question.
 
Ask yourself the following question. Do not answer it too hastily or in a knee jerk manner. Think, really think, perhaps even pray, about the answer.
 
If you discovered a series of diametrically opposed contradictions between the red words in the bible and the most basic tenets of Christianity ... if these tenets went to the very heart of what makes Chrsitianity Christianity ... indeed, if these  tenets were commonly held as divine truth by 90% or more of all Christians ... indeed, if these tenets were being taught religiously by essentially every pastor from the pulpit ...
 
What Would Jesus Want You To Do?
 

Thing is Islota, you are assuming that no one is read. I have read and researched a great many things about Christianity. Some I disagree with, some I can easily believe. Others here have done so as well....Thing is... whatever I believe to be factual in the Bible or altered for one reason or another.... I do believe in the one thing that makes Christianity what it is... 

I Believe that Jesus was sent to earth by GOD to be our Savior... I believe HE is my Shepard... I believe he chose to die so I could live... and that he rose on the 3rd day and ascended to heaven.... I believe his sacrifice is my grace... and I thank HIM for that.... 

Doesn't matter the rest... that is the crux of my faith... and nothing will shake that... least of all anything you can present for debate or consideration.

Interesting.., is all I can say. One thing about forums is that they exist whether you participate or not. U believe you did what you came to do. I guess you did. While you consider your posts tame in comparison to what you think Jesus would do, I think its a moot point actually, lol. U asked the question what would Jesus do? Well, we all would like to think we know what He would do. When He returns He will come as a judge with a severe penalty for the wicked and rewards for the righteous. Its that simple. Its not about what would Jesus do? He already said what He would do. Thats not a mystery.